Tuesday, December 20, 2016

Double Trouble - Feedback Summary and Decisions for DT2

First things first. Double Trouble 2 will be happening on Saturday 10th June 2017 at the North West Gaming Centre. I was tempted to run it this Winter but I had a discussion with my wife about it and she laughed at me because she knew I'd say that despite saying after BW10 that it was too much work running two. I am, however, considering a Blood Bowl event but I'll get to that later.

Right, onto the feedback. Firstly, thanks again to everyone who took the time to comment or email me. It always sounds corny but I really do think the event is better because of it. I know I can't make everyone happy, I gave up with that after the first couple of Blog Wars. What I can do though is try and make it the best event possible for those who come along and that's why I do this whole process. Sorry it's taken me so long to get around to publish this though. I'll group things into categories as before.

The Venue
This was probably the biggest issue last time. It was probably more of a big deal for me running the event than for the guys who came along mind you. I've given it a lot of thought and decided that we'd just be cutting our nose off to spite our face by not returning to NWGC and as you can see from the opening line of this post I've already booked us in. We wouldn't be double booked again and they've made the venue look great. Take a look at the pictures on their FB page It's vastly improved from before. The lunch situation will be significantly better because we're going back to using Subway again. Be nice to give everyone a hot meal but easy to cater for everyone and hopefully be decent weather by then anyway.

Round Times
From the feedback it seemed that most people were at least getting to turn 5 most of the time so perhaps this isn't as much of an issue as I thought. Still, I think there's some work I can do to make the process smoother. People had said the pregame wasn't too bad but it's an easy bit to "fix" so I'm going to tinker a little bit.

I was considering the same deployment in each round but generally I think people were happy enough with it. Seems that the table quarters in round two were a bit small for some armies. How would people feel about using Vanguard strike instead? I know it's fiddly to set up but most people are used to it and there'd be more space. I wanted to avoid Hammer & Anvil because the venue doesn't normally lend itself to that layout and you can easily end up with a long distance between the two armies.

The deployment in the final mission need some work. If it's going to stay the same then things need clarifying such as where reserves come on. I know it makes it easy to gang up on people but that can be the nature of doubles regardless of deployment. Maybe having a more standard layout but having the teams alternate deployment. Could make for some interesting tactical decisions.

I'm pretty happy with this as it is. The two concurrent missions work pretty well and play to people's strengths. I've tweaked a couple of things on the spreadsheet to make life easier but generally speaking I'm going to leave this alone. Having one team win one mission but not the other helps play to the more relaxed atmosphere I reckon.

Forge World
Doesn't seem to me that people thought Forge World was too bad. Difficult to tell from a single event with only limited use of FW I suppose. Again, I think I'll keep things the same and see how it goes. With only 750pts to play with it isn't likely that people will be too filthy. Some of the standard 40K formations are filth anyway!

Speaking of which, I can't decide what to do about these. There's a part of me that wants to ban them completely but I know that limits what people can bring. Maybe having some form of "unbound" where you can only bring stuff from a single codex and no more than two of anything? Would love to hear your thoughts. 

I know this was a big problem last time. I don't think an outright ban is the way to go but an elegant solution would probably be that you can't break the "no more than two of any unit" rule with summoning. That means you could replace lost units of a particular type but never exceed the starting amount. Obviously you could still summon two of something else that wasn't in your original list but again, no more than two of them alive at any one time. Does that sound reasonable?

Random Pairings
This is definitely staying. It gives the event its identity like the compulsory SC did for Blog Wars. It's significantly less "trouble" if it's just normal doubles. By mixing up each and every single pairing it makes for a social atmosphere and hopefully means no-one takes things too seriously.

Painting Competition
I think this can stay as it is too. The issues last time were more to do with the crappy room we were in with its limited space. In the main hall with tables already set out for the competition it should run much more smoothly and better lighting couldn't hurt!

I think that's it. I'd really love to hear your feedback on the suggestions I've made above. Once I've managed to get the rules pack updated I'll put tickets on sale. Hopefully you'll all be able to make it again and maybe we'll have even more than last time! I can promise the prizing structure will remain the same (if not slightly more generous). 


  1. I didn't attend last time but for my own tuppence worth, I don't think there is anything wrong with the vast majority of formations. It's taking a while to balance all the factions out into the new style but once that is done they encourage you to build genuinely fluffy armies. The big issue comes not from formations in general (though a house rule making any freebies to be paid for at the normal points costs wouldn't be outrageous) but from allied combinations of formations. Making each 750pt army a single codex list goes much further to halting filth than banning formations.

  2. All I remember now is having a good time and unless anything else comes up I'll be getting the better half to approve my attendance. The Blood Bowl event sounds awesome too. Not sure of any other thoughts, maybe vanguard strike is a decent choice. If both forces are together its less likely to get ganged up on, table quarters did end up a bit isolated in a way. Regardless I look forward to it.

  3. Very glad to hear DT2 is in the works. I'll get the 3D printer warmed up...

    Seriously though, I'm pretty much on board with everything you've said above. For the formations; I don't think I particularly remember them having significant impact (other than encouraging my all armour list that pretty much died anyway). Having no more than 2 of any unit and having such a small point total limits the worst of them. I mean, you've only got to look at the pie chart; 3 formations was a small slice compared to the other 29 detachments, and I'm not sure any of them did all that well! I say leave 'em in, although I may not bring the triple vindicator list again. At least, not that one...

  4. Awesome to know I've got another fun day of gaming to look forward too! I'm pretty much on board with all your suggestions, although I feel the no more than 2 of a unit may still feel a little restrictive for some armies, at 750 points though I can't imagine it'd be hard to work around.
    You can be sure I'll be checking the date in the new year though, gunna be a blast

  5. I had a lot of fun at the event. The random partner and opponents was a great feature and I am glad that you are keeping it. It led to a lot of great tactical discussions and games, with forces you usually wouldn't see played together.

    I would be much happier with Vanguard Strike for the second game. My Orks were struggling to get deployed even though my partner had a very small army. The third game deployment zones were also a lot of fun and led to some interesting tactical decision, but again, was very cramped for my Ork army.

    I think your limit on summoning would be a good solution. Was there a warp charge cap for the event? I can't remember if there was, but this may help to reduce the issue as well.

    Overall, I am looking forward to the next one and hope that I can make it. Who knows, we might finally get to play one another at one of these events!

  6. All sounds good to me!

    With regards to formations, I think the 750pt limit kills quite a few of them off anyway. Some armies require a formation to give them a bit more edge and make them worth taking and others (I'm looking at you Eldar...) are strong enough in a CAD. For what it's worth I think formations should stay and see how it goes.

  7. Definitely sounds good and I do want to jump in on this time, need to make sure no more issues with work putting the kibosh on it this time round. Anyways should be able to get booked on it soon, am down for Dave Westons event so hopefully will see you there in Feb 👍


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