I've got a decent collection of Tau at the moment and they're one of my more painted armies too! I've taken them to tourmanents in the past with mixed success but I'm very much looking forward to what the new codex will bring. I think this release is going to be the most exciting so far for me since it's the first time that one of my existing armies have had a new book. Matt has had new books for all of his armies (BA, GK, Daemons) in the time he's been collecting them but Tau will be my first update. Frankly I don't think they needed much work. Sure the book is dated but I think 6th edition actually did them a lot of favours. Before I talk about the leaked pics of the new models I just want to briefly say what I hope stays the same in the new book.
Firstly, broadsides will hopefully still be potent. There's rumours of an S8 rail weapon for them but time will tell and even so they should still be good if they've been reduced in points. I'm hoping the versatility of crisis suits is still there. I love the wide array of combinations you can create so I hope the options are still there. Fire warriors are pretty good in their current form I think but more upgrades would be good. Generally I hope the army keeps it's dominance at range and that the suits are still strong. Not sure how I feel about Kroot. There's no sign of them in the pictures (or Vespid for that matter) at the moment but I think it'd be a shame for them to go from the book entirely.
I'm actually warming to the flyers and the riptide model. I agree with most people that it's a shame they don't look more like the FW ones but there's nothing stopping people buying the FW ones and playing counts as (except the price of course). The riptide looks good apart from the head which I might have to convert up to be a bit more bulky.
Elsewhere I'm pleased to see some plastic pathfinders. Not sure what I'm going to do with my conversions but time will tell again. Hopefully they'll be more useful now. I'm intrigued to see what they're going to do with markerlights. I'm also glad there's a new model for Farsight although I'm unlikely to shell out for it since I have an old one. Fingers crossed he'll be worth taking now.
From the looks of the rules snippets that are coming out. Tau will have no problem dealing with flyers. This isn't particularly suprising when GW have allowed them to ally with pretty much everyone. This will mean that we'll probably see a lot of them as allies at tournaments which means more cash for GW of course. Generally the rules look pretty positive. As with any update I'm sure there'll be things that people will whine about but I'm just glad to see my Tau getting the spotlight again.
The question now is..... what do I take to Blog Wars? DA which need a lot of painting or Tau which are pretty much ready to go...
On the case of the flyers I am seeing a pattern maybe... If the army has good anti-air the flyers will be average (Tau/DA), but if there is little AA in the troops, then the flyer will far more independent (CSM).
ReplyDeleteI see what you're saying but DA certainly don't have "good anti-air". Flakk missiles aren't good at taking down flyers. They struggle almost as much as any other army. The best way to deal with flyers is with other flyers and the DA ones can't do that. Hopefully the Tau ones will be able to or the ground units will be better.
DeleteThe problem with the DA flyers is that they don't have a proper identity. If the nephilim was geared to taking down flyers and the dark talon for killing infantry then fair enough but neither excels at either role particularly.
I half agree with you there... The power of fliers is that they are fliers... Hornets to the enemy, however I will concede that I do not know the full stats of the DA ones.
DeleteOne other factor is despite only S7 that more than enough to pen AV12, and with DA you have them in a good spread, giving you many overlapping areas of anti air support, where as CSM have to make one unit very expensive as well as a fire magnet to get their AA.
Air vs Air is an odd subject... If you make the fliers good Vs each other then you also have to worry about that power spilling over to air vs ground... Its a touchy conundrum.
I'm afraid I completely disagree with you here, DA really don't have good fliers, and flakk missiles really aren't good AA.
DeleteS7 does not at all reliably pen AV12, you need an average of 3 hits to do any sort of damage, and it's only 1/6 to pen. And even if they do pen, since they're not AP2 or AP1 it's very unlikely they'll "one shot" a flier. If they were free you might have a point, but having to pay an extra 10 points for that extra S7 AP4 missile is really bad!
The trend so far is "if you want to kill fliers, get some fliers", with the only divergence from that being Annihilation barges (because Necrons needed more AA right?). Will be nice to see some more ally friendly ground based AA!
The problem is your looking for one item to take out fliers, and thats not how it works in 6th... Look at DA, CSM, CD, and even the Tau rumors (6th Vs 6th really is the only way to argue this)... None of them have anything that eats Fliers alone... Some come close, but those have their flaws because of that, hell even flier spam is weak cause you take away from your ground troops to do that and leave yourself open to losing the table.
DeleteDo the DA fliers rock? No, not as a lone stomp unit, but as support fighters(just like the Tau's will be). But they have some good items, Hell 1 has a Lascannon, that will punch a flier in the nuts if need be.
As for Flakk your rite, and wrong, this is 6th where glancing is quite powerful as it is.. A 1 shot is great, but again look at the rumors for Broadsides, the days of 1 shoting everything is going downhill.
I'm not saying your math is wrong, just that I think your judging things a tiny bit too harshly, and I think thats cause your basing a 6th dex(DA) vs a non 6th(Crons?).
Necrons were written by Ward as the last codex of 5th whilst he was writing the 6th rules. We can safely consider them a 6th codex and frankly we'll be stuck with them til 7th. Their book is incredibly strong thanks to flyer spam without losing ground superiority thanks to wraiths/barges.
DeleteI dunno, GW is about to put out 4 codices in 4 months, so rite now anything, even a new Necrons, is possible... As for 6th I consider Crons 5.75 as they only have fliers to kill fliers... Well as far as not needing to snapshot.
DeleteBut this is the 6th trend... Marines spend 10pts to get Flakk, Tau lose 2S, and pay 15pts to skyfire XV-88s... Its just gonna keep going like this.
Annihilation barges are better at anti air than most things. Twin linked S7 and if you get a 6 that's two extra hits. About as reliable as havoc squad with flakk.
DeleteYup, but its much easier to pop a barge off the table than a dug in squad. AV11 is not hard to 1 shot for SM... Hell even the DA flyer can pop it with it's Lascannon.
DeleteStill it needs 6s to hit, and 4s to glance a DA flyer, and thats pretty good, twin-liked or not, its all up to the dice gods.
Im not saying DA fliers are omg good, just I don't see why they are perceived as so bad... Other than a high point cost.
Its AV13 thanks to its special rule, Living Metal I think. Try killing 3 AV13 vehicles when you've got wraiths and flyers in your face.
DeleteThe DA flyers are awful. Pretty much every marine codex has access to the stormraven now which is like 20 pts more and infinitely better. The ork dakkajet can put out more fire and costs a lot less. The points cost is stupid. A twin linked lascannon isn't worth it and that's the only bit of the flyer that's any use.
AV13 (open top) is no different than any other army, like tripple Hammerheads with Disruption Pods.
DeleteSo you get equal firepower from the Raven for 20 more points? The Dakkajet is nice, but only has S6, and is paper thin.
I get what your saying, in an army that sports the original Wing specialists (Damn you Drago) the Flyers feel crappy... I just don't see it that way... You don't buy the Nephilim Jetfighter cause it has LCs, you get it cause you want them in the air, and can put those shots exactly where you want them.
Im also curious what you think about the battlesuit mounted Seekers, and what that may hint at for markerlights.
ReplyDeleteI'm intrigued about markers. Hopefully they'll be more useful but mainly I'd like it if they weren't heavy.
DeleteWe will see, I have a feeling that while they will most likely remain Heavy we will see more relentless ML options like better priced Drones, and such.
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