tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post5424488150888270338..comments2023-04-15T10:40:46.482+01:00Comments on From The Fang: Blog Wars 8 - Feedback Discussion (please comment)From The Fanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-76877680000683010602015-02-10T20:32:27.088+00:002015-02-10T20:32:27.088+00:00It's a great shame that none of the Red Steel ...It's a great shame that none of the Red Steel guys came to BW8 as I think it was probably the best yet. There were strong lists but nothing cheesy (to my mind anyway) and a great atmosphere. <br /><br />I don't think there's been a shift to WAAC lists or at least a more competitive edge in the slightest. There's always been a core of people who are more interested in winning than others. We don't really have any WAAC guys anymore and if anything the competitive group is smaller than it ever was. <br /><br />Ultimately it's difficult for me to know in advance how competitive the scene will be. Obviously there's a huge chunk of veterans who've been to at least one event before but so far this year there's about 50:50 new guys to veterans. Having a strong list doesn't necessarily mean WAAC though. Graham is a great example of this. He decided to bring wave serpents and wraithknights last time to try out the competitive thing but having played him plenty in the past he's about as far from WAAC as you can be.<br /><br />I really don't think a fun, or indeed friendly, tournament is an oxymoron. If you aren't playing for fun or friendship then I really don't know why you'd turn up! I pride myself on Blog Wars being one of the few events on the calendar with a really strong emphasis on friendly gaming. I was told by several people from the start that "it couldn't be done" but I really think I've come as close as I can. I do everything I can to encourage that but again it comes down to who's there on the day. Of course in a tournament you play to win but hopefully at Blog Wars you're far less likely to meet an arsehole than at any other event. If that isn't the case then I should just give up.<br /><br />As for people manipulating scenarios for maximum points, it happens no matter what scenario or scoring system you use. It's down to individuals to allow it or not. I had the same experience myself at an event at my FLGS recently but let my opponent forestall tabling me to help him score more points. <br /><br />Fun is a very personal concept though. I will never understand how anyone finds Broadside spam fun for example. I don't even own any HYMP suits for that reason. I'm sure some people enjoy the feeling of blasting stuff off the table though. I hope the army selection and "spirit of the event" encourages people to bring something different to Blog Wars but at the same time I hate asking someone to change their list. I've actually had a lot of fun in some games where I've been totally annihilated.<br /><br />Allowing things like FW etc does make things more interesting if you're of the right mindset but less interesting if people just pick out the powerful stuff and spam it (which 40K players are notorious for). Adding multiple detachments as an option has the same issues. Some people will see it as a chance to bring a varied army using a lot of their favourite units but others will see avenues for abuse. I think there's very little difference between Unbound and Battle Forged at times.<br /><br />Army Selection is the biggest issue every single time I run Blog Wars. I've come to a point where I keep some things fixed whilst others are open for debate. I'm permitting more Lords of War this time for example as a bit of an experiment.<br /><br />My main hope is that people can see I make the effort to find a system that at least makes the majority of people happy. In some ways it has a lot to do with what I personally want from a tournament but I hope the time and effort I put into the rules pack before each event is worthwhile. It's FAR easier for me to just say bring whatever you want and not check any lists but then I really don't think it'd be a "fun tournament" for anyone.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-58778474566509589082015-02-10T10:25:00.820+00:002015-02-10T10:25:00.820+00:00I think I have to take some responsibility for the...I think I have to take some responsibility for the impression I gave to the Red Steel guys that came down to BW7. In the past Blog Wars I've attended it has been incredibly fun, with a really communal attitude and lists that were well built, but not overly harsh. Unfortunately as 40k has changed and the tournament has got larger (in my opinion obviously) there seems to have been a bit of a shift towards WaaC lists and a more competitive edge. I think at BW7 people turned up expecting a few friendly games and were unlucky to end up facing some real "tournament builds". I don't think this is anything you can really change though Alex - I think it was a problem of different expectations - so sorry about that!.<br /><br />With regards to the restrictions I think it depends on what kind of event you are trying to run, to me a "fun tournament" is a bit of an oxymoron as the tournament side brings with it serious competitive play, harsh lists and scenario manipulation for maximum points (like purposely not tabling your opponent to gain more victory points, or stalling the game to stay on objectives longer) all of which reduce the fun. Fun, to me, is using units and playing armies you don't normally get chance to, raiding the toy cupboard and getting to play with all your shinies lol. As you know, I've never been one to bring overly competitive lists and have been much more about brining an army I thought was fun and interesting (MONKIES!) so i'm not really interested in winning the thing, just having fun.<br />That said, i'd have no problem with people bringing FW units, datalsates, summoning etc etc as I think it would be much more fun and interesting to see lots of different units/armies on display than the same Broadside/Wraithknight/Flyrant/Bloodthirster lists you see everywhere.<br />With regards to Knights - I think you should allow them, they're an official 40k codex in the same way Tau, Eldar, etc. are, so restring them makes no sense unless your going to ban Wave Serpents and Farsight Bombs, which in my opinion are more difficult to play legal armies from existing codex's.<br />Also I would like to be able to use lots of different detachments in one army (scions/inquisition/knights/assassins etc) but that's just personal preference.Greylambhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01985651823820150651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-90743773041880345762015-02-08T16:21:15.950+00:002015-02-08T16:21:15.950+00:00The fire escape - Wasn't a complaint, I'm ...The fire escape - Wasn't a complaint, I'm just a wuss! <br /><br />I think I'm going to buy a Obelisk tonight! Pow!User2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-52330197320045312412015-02-08T15:35:56.056+00:002015-02-08T15:35:56.056+00:00I'm in no way against FW models. I love them a...I'm in no way against FW models. I love them and wish I could justify owning some. The idea of "no FW models" is more to say "nothing that would normally be represented by a FW model". Want to use a contemptor for a normal dread? Go for it! Same with preheresy marines as regular marines. From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-26582295945065310822015-02-08T14:55:00.673+00:002015-02-08T14:55:00.673+00:00Using Forgeworld or other manufacturers models isn...Using Forgeworld or other manufacturers models isn't uncommon at BW. There ist even a Squat army showing up each now and then with Blimps and other fancy stuff. ;-)HellHennihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04923437652472440692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-3683003882508252382015-02-08T14:32:27.771+00:002015-02-08T14:32:27.771+00:00I agree. That is definitely true (unless those un...I agree. That is definitely true (unless those units don't have 40k stamps!). Here is an alternative though. Would FW units be allowed as "counts as?" That would let people who spent the time and energy painting them all up to integrate in with their army the ability to field them on the table.<br /><br />In the ork example, the mega dread is the same scale as a gorkanaut, and could easily represent one.greggleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528518337222880432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-73271130796347023122015-02-08T11:57:09.561+00:002015-02-08T11:57:09.561+00:00Eh, I can see where Alex is coming from in all hon...Eh, I can see where Alex is coming from in all honesty. Whilst there is stuff like that Mega Dread, there's also stuff like Acanthrites for Necrons who tip the scale the other way. For every person that talks about wanting to add something simple like a Contemptor Dread, there's probably also someone looking to add a few Thudd Guns. There's no way to fully regulate FW units without going through them all one by one - and that simply isn't practical, nor would it be likely to balance things perfectly. Arclighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405116393377981888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-90521790896746252502015-02-08T11:43:06.603+00:002015-02-08T11:43:06.603+00:00On the knights - you did up it to two, but then on...On the knights - you did up it to two, but then only two people brought individual knights, if my memory serves correctly. Arclighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405116393377981888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-31074214878728976432015-02-08T11:35:01.755+00:002015-02-08T11:35:01.755+00:00On the fire escape - it was fine tbh. It's a s...On the fire escape - it was fine tbh. It's a sort of narrow walkway high up, but there's a railing round it and its pretty solid. I was quite happy sitting on the railing until everyone else out there panicked! Arclighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02405116393377981888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-16822032777353106942015-02-07T18:57:13.241+00:002015-02-07T18:57:13.241+00:00Yep, I have BW10 in my google calendar and that sh...Yep, I have BW10 in my google calendar and that should give me enough time to get my Blood Angels up and running! Or if not it'll be the trusty night Lords with a converted Huron!Rob-not-stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13535589578326730130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-75483373650813037562015-02-07T13:28:23.853+00:002015-02-07T13:28:23.853+00:00Is there a particular reason you dont like fw so m...Is there a particular reason you dont like fw so much? There are two types of fw. There is experimental rules (omfg what is that) and 40k approved rules. Generally the 40k approved units are over coated compared to their codex counter parts, and usually just offer some variety.<br /><br />A deff dread is 85 points in the codex. Fw mega Dr ad is around 175 has the same hull points, +1av and a 5++. <br /><br />I'd consider giving fw a better look the future. The 40k approved stuff is pretty mild, if not underpowered.<br /><br />greggleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15528518337222880432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-39900011137154557922015-02-07T08:52:14.896+00:002015-02-07T08:52:14.896+00:00There's no such thing as a fluffy tournament t...There's no such thing as a fluffy tournament to my mind. Blog Wars is a friendly tournament but not a fluffy one. I'm sorry if you got that impression but it wasn't one I've put out there. <br /><br />The idea is to encourage people to run something friendlier than their normal tournament list. I do my best to stop people bringing horrible stuff but that's pretty subjective and difficult to achieve. <br /><br />Blog Wars 7 had a couple of particularly strong lists. One if which, the eventual winner, was a last minute stand in. I wasn't thrilled with his list but there wasn't much I could do at that point. Suffice to say that won't happen again. <br /><br />I hope those that attended BW8 found the balance to be much better. Strong lists but not horrible combos. <br /><br />Forge World models are outstanding but I wouldn't say they add flavour. Perhaps for a less competitive player but generally people want to bring them because they're more powerful. <br /><br />I often have to paint extra units for a tournament but I like having that motivation to get stuff painted up. <br /><br />There'll always be a list at an event that will give you a miserable game. That's the rock, paper, scissors nature of 40k. There's a chance that could happen in all 3 games too but that's the problem with a single day event. <br /><br />No matter what system I come up though with I'll put people off. Allowing FW would put people off too. Myself included frankly. Any TO brings an element of their personality into their rules pack. You'd think BW was the only event with restrictions. From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-60400942199279896322015-02-07T08:12:09.657+00:002015-02-07T08:12:09.657+00:00Thought I'd comment ad I came to blog wars as...Thought I'd comment ad I came to blog wars as part of the red steel group, we came prepared for a fluffy tournament and we found that wasn't the case at all when we got there and saw alot of the other lists. I know you're not keen on forgeworld but that's a big put off for me as I use alot of forgeworld in my armies due to the models being outstanding really and the extra flavour those units give....personally I had to paint extra units which I never got round to in time for 8. Think alot of forgeworld is quite balanced compared to things like riptides....maybe allowing one forgeworld unit per army might be something to consider. Thought I'd offer my feedback anyway as those 2 reasons are two that are keeping me away for now. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-10590034258930956382015-02-06T22:32:49.153+00:002015-02-06T22:32:49.153+00:00Defiantly agree that the Troops issue is with 40k ...Defiantly agree that the Troops issue is with 40k and not BW - which is a shame because I think the application and use of Troops is where the tactics lie in the game. Without that it's all about picking the right hammers and swinging at each other.<br /><br />I was talking to LordH recently about the same thing and I think we are going to try and have a game with 6+ Troops units and limited mech/guns to try and make it a bit 'purer'.the 6th degreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10114651433321299632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-22340601808536813352015-02-06T22:23:09.985+00:002015-02-06T22:23:09.985+00:00It really isn't that tough to fit summoning in...It really isn't that tough to fit summoning into an army though and countless times I've seen people hide a single psyker behind a ruin and sit summoning all game. I really don't think you have to drop much to fit it in and the rewards are worth the often small sacrifice. <br /><br />I'd hardly say Blog Wars is a tournament full of fluff enthusiasts. I think there's an important distinction between friendly and fluffy. Whilst I disagree with some things on fluff grounds these aren't the things I ban at Blog Wars. The term "fluff player" seems to be used by competitive players for anyone who doesn't want to spam units to win their games. <br /><br />Sorry it's just a pet hate of mine for people not to be able to make the distinction. There are actually very few true "fluff players" at Blog Wars (or any tournament for that matter). The fluff players tend to avoid the scene completely.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-48174835740349619872015-02-06T22:18:01.957+00:002015-02-06T22:18:01.957+00:00Thanks for the feedback Graham. I'm going to g...Thanks for the feedback Graham. I'm going to give the 3 knights thing a go this time and we can look at it again for BW10 if necessary. <br /><br />Daemonology is a big bug bear of mine too. I really hate to see non-Daemon armies using it as a mechanism for generating free troops. At the team event I played Tyranids with Eldar summoning Daemons. Very fluffy! I hate the concept and no matter what justification you come up with I think it's a stupid mechanic. I'd be very tempted to say ban Conjuration completely but that probably penalises Daemons players. Perhaps I could say non-Daemon armies can Conjure but suffer Perils on EVERY attempt?!<br /><br />I'm going to leave it as last mission only for now but might make a shift to the Cally/ETC format at some point. I've always been proud to be different with my scenarios though.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-314127075797604502015-02-06T22:11:03.155+00:002015-02-06T22:11:03.155+00:00Hopefully you can come along to BW10 in November t...Hopefully you can come along to BW10 in November then? I'll take a look over the comp but generally I'm not a fan of soft scores for reasons I've discussed before. Always interested to read how other TOs are handling 7th though.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-77385100794777088612015-02-06T22:09:52.044+00:002015-02-06T22:09:52.044+00:00As ever (apart from once), Forge World will not be...As ever (apart from once), Forge World will not be allowed I'm afraid. Codexes without a special character won't be expected to field one but obviously trying to bring one along is encouraged.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-2981480683648408922015-02-06T22:08:28.342+00:002015-02-06T22:08:28.342+00:00Pretty sure I did up it to two knights but not sur...Pretty sure I did up it to two knights but not sure anyone brought two?! I can't remember off the top of my head though. Again, no matter what I do there'll still be some horrible armies for certain people. Even Graham's list isn't horrible for everyone to face.<br /><br />I think Troops are becoming more pointless in 40K generally rather than it being a BW issue per se. The changes to scoring units and the Faction detachments have meant that Troops are somewhat irrelevant these days. From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-23090853019308220342015-02-06T22:05:30.730+00:002015-02-06T22:05:30.730+00:00I'm not sure three Knights is fun to play agai...I'm not sure three Knights is fun to play against either but I'm trying to keep as many people as happy as possible. This is always my problem though as no matter what decision you make as a TO you're going to piss people off. If I removed all restrictions there'd be as many people pissed off as if I had tons of complicated restrictions. I hope I get the balance about right.<br /><br />Including Lords of War is something I'm looking at as I've mentioned above. I'm pretty keen to avoid Forge World though for various reasons I've already stated several times. This is again something that will please some and piss off others. <br /><br />Ultimately I hope people want to attend Blog Wars for the atmosphere and aren't too worried about what they can or can't bring. If you're not taking the event too seriously then provided your games aren't miserable I've done my job. Sometimes it's unavoidable as someone is just unlucky with their matchups though.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-88285625392033618612015-02-06T22:01:15.977+00:002015-02-06T22:01:15.977+00:00Hopefully I can convince them to do the curry agai...Hopefully I can convince them to do the curry again or something along those lines at least. The food at BW8 was by no means awful but it just wasn't up to much. Granted we're not paying very much for it but still.<br /><br />I look forward to seeing your DA at BW20! Not sure I'll be able to keep this up for that long mind you as that would be 2020!<br /><br />You're right about the Flyrants but that's more GW's doing than mine by shifting some of the other options around. It isn't ideal but it's tricky to fix without adding army specific exclusions. I'm actually pleased to hear it's a challenge to build a list. The original idea behind the SC thing was to encourage people to think outside the box (or netlist) and bring something they wouldn't normally run.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-47050101543526067682015-02-06T21:55:20.942+00:002015-02-06T21:55:20.942+00:00As I've said above I'm considering allowin...As I've said above I'm considering allowing Lords of War that have a non-Forge World model. That'd be Stompa, Obelisk/Tesseract Vault, Baneblade, Lord of Skulls etc. <br /><br />I've never played against AdLance but I think it's more the thought of it than anything else. Greg makes some good points about it but I still think it's unnecessary so it won't be allowed for now at least.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-39177650306213917282015-02-06T21:50:14.341+00:002015-02-06T21:50:14.341+00:00Glad you're coming along for the first time. I...Glad you're coming along for the first time. I'm always pleased when people choose Blog Wars as their introduction to tournaments. Hope it doesn't put you off!<br /><br />I used to have a Best Theme list so it's perhaps something I could reinstate. From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-18719011247310060882015-02-06T21:49:08.413+00:002015-02-06T21:49:08.413+00:00Not being a smoker I haven't experienced the f...Not being a smoker I haven't experienced the fire escape issue. Was it particularly unstable or just felt that way?<br /><br />I'm looking at the Lords of War again in the light of the codices that have come out recently. My current feeling is that any Lord of War is fine provided it doesn't have a Forge World model. Not sure about the Lord of Skulls mind you.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2320541665600624608.post-255160826691852452015-02-06T21:43:59.344+00:002015-02-06T21:43:59.344+00:00I'll be speaking to the venue nearer the time ...I'll be speaking to the venue nearer the time about the food and also about the toilets as I completely agree with you on both. <br /><br />Like anything else, some armies will struggle with three knights but others will have no problem and as you say you can write your list knowing it's a possibility. <br /><br />Pretty sure I'm going to have a conversion prize and try to encourage players to differentiate between the two.<br /><br />I look forward to your feedback on army selection etc.From The Fanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01043549318855295914noreply@blogger.com